What will you do if the programmer took your money and delivery nothing?

[termenator]

I have paid $650 to a programmer named oleg (jzsoft) http://www.prestashop.com/forums/member/23333/jzsoft/
https://www.getafreelancer.com/users/707871.html, and he took my money and never delivery what he said he would. If you were me, what will you do?

[tomerg3]

I don't know if there is much you can do now, writing this thread is probably the best thing you can do to also warn other people.

I'm not sure if this is what you did, but when people try to find the lowest price they can get, they sometimes end up getting scammed, or just not getting what they wanted and payed for.

You should never agree to pay more than 10% up front to someone you know nothing about and can't find any good reviews about them.

I cannot compete in price with people of getafreelancer.com or similar websites, but with me, you can be 100% sure you will get exactly what you need, in the timeframe I provide, and you will get support and help with anything related that you need.

It is sad that there are programmers out there that behave this way, especially with modules, I see way too many people here that had a bad experience with a module they bought, which is why I make service and support my highest priority.

[Radu]

good point tomerg.

I worked for a good number of years working on a site similar to gaf: it's called rent-a-coder and finally I quit (because the quality of work was not payed properly) even I was in top 100 world wide in rankings.

Most buyers preferred choosing unexperienced coders for a better cost (even if the cost was 10% less for instance) ending up by loosing a lot of time and with their money taken.

I am not sure about GAF but RAC provided escrow payments so in the case coder will not deliver a thing you could take your money back.

[Star]

I had also contracted this indivual progrommer oleg (jzsoft) http://www.prestashop.com/forums/member/23333/jzsoft/ https://www.getafreelancer.com/users/707871.html to build my website 1 1/2 year ago. He asked for $1300 and 50% up front. I sent him the money and weeks after weeks he told me the script was done and everything looked good and asked me for my password to upload the script to my server. However, nothing was shown and nothing was delivered. The project supposed to be last for two weeks but after 4 months, he finally sent me an email told me that the job was too hard and he could not do it. He did not refund my money or return my emails since.

I did not shop around hoping to find the "cheapest " programmer. Actually he was the most expensive one and I chose him thinking he should be good.

After oleg, then I contracted another programmer who was an active member in the forum to build the website for me, and months after months nothing was delivered. And he did not even tell me he can not do the job. He just won't return my emails 3 months after he accepted the job. The same story happened again. I still see him in the forum every now and then. What can I do? Where do I find a "good" and responsible programmer?

Is my site that hard to build? It was/is as my knowlege about programming was next to zero. But if the programmers can not do the job, shouldn't he/she not accepting the job at the begining?

I had wasted my time, money and effort with these kind of programmers. I learned a big lesson. I don't know if I did a right decision, I eventually end up building the entire website myself. It was a hard journey. But what can I do? There is no law to protect consumers like us--we are willing to pay--we are not looking for a "cheapest" programmer but a good quality of work.

Besides learning to do it myself, what else can I do? Where can I find a "good" programmer? A programmer that will tell me "no, I can not do the job" at the first place?

[tomerg3]

Star, i'm sorry to hear about that..

Maybe we should start a "beware of these developers thread" so it will reduce the chance of more people getting screwed...

As for a place to find a good programmer, the obvious thing is to go with a big well known and well established company.

If you do choose to go with an individual programmer, it is always good to ask him for previous work examples, and to contact one or two of his clients, unless you are certain they are legit.

Asking for 50% up front would raise a red flag in my mind everytime as well...

[Guest]

it is not always true that when something is low price, it means there will be problem, or no one has to believe it. For example, I sell my designs to low price, it does not mean that I do not give any service. My customers happy with my service. Moreover,reason for low price is I want everyone can buy a new design.

[bobbob]

Mods - Ban those thieving gits asap.

To those ripped off- Call the police

Contact the payment company you used to transfer the funds and explain what happened. If you are lucky you might get an address. Unfortunatley I'm guessing they have covered their tracks so as to avoid being caught. In which case, doh!

If I got ripped like that I'd be having all sorts of rage going through my head...

[Burhan BVK]

People usually get away with small crimes like this, there is not much anyone can do unless you used an escrow service for the payment. If you used paypal, you an contact them but even that is not likely to make a difference. Getting angry is pointless, take this as a lesson learned and be more careful next time.

Whenever in doubt, use an escrow service. There are quite a few available on the net, charging something around 5-10%. I would suggest using an escrow service whenever the contract is more than a hundred bucks. It is well worth the extra money you pay.

[Guest]

Sorry to hear that!

[hunter204]

it is not always true that when something is low price, it means there will be problem, or no one has to believe it. For example, I sell my designs to low price, it does not mean that I do not give any service. My customers happy with my service. Moreover,reason for low price is I want everyone can buy a new design.

Is this you zaman?

[enigma32]

I had also contracted this indivual progrommer oleg (jzsoft) http://www.prestashop.com/forums/member/23333/jzsoft/ https://www.getafreelancer.com/users/707871.html to build my website 1 1/2 year ago. He asked for $1300 and 50% up front. I sent him the money and weeks after weeks he told me the script was done and everything looked good and asked me for my password to upload the script to my server. However, nothing was shown and nothing was delivered. The project supposed to be last for two weeks but after 4 months, he finally sent me an email told me that the job was too hard and he could not do it. He did not refund my money or return my emails since.

I did not shop around hoping to find the "cheapest " programmer. Actually he was the most expensive one and I chose him thinking he should be good.

After oleg, then I contracted another programmer who was an active member in the forum to build the website for me, and months after months nothing was delivered. And he did not even tell me he can not do the job. He just won't return my emails 3 months after he accepted the job. The same story happened again. I still see him in the forum every now and then. What can I do? Where do I find a "good" and responsible programmer?

Is my site that hard to build? It was/is as my knowlege about programming was next to zero. But if the programmers can not do the job, shouldn't he/she not accepting the job at the begining?

I had wasted my time, money and effort with these kind of programmers. I learned a big lesson. I don't know if I did a right decision, I eventually end up building the entire website myself. It was a hard journey. But what can I do? There is no law to protect consumers like us--we are willing to pay--we are not looking for a "cheapest" programmer but a good quality of work.

Besides learning to do it myself, what else can I do? Where can I find a "good" programmer? A programmer that will tell me "no, I can not do the job" at the first place?

Star, that holds true for all lines of work! never heard "good help is hard to find"? Even working in the food service industry where the required skill and intellect is at the bottom of the pole, it was near impossible to find good help. The only time I'd ever "trained" a quality replacement it was my own friend I had referred to the owner saying look, I'm not training 10 idiots in a row who just quit anyhow, just hire my friend I already know he's as good as I am I don't gotta teach him a damn thing.

All you can do is try to take measures to reduce your risk exposure beforehand.

[termenator]

I have tried all I could to get the money from that jerk, and I had not success. He will not return my email and I don't see him on Skype any more. My project was $2,600 and he wanted me to pay 50% upfront, and eventually accept 25% upfront. He told me sad story about this and that and asked me to send him the money using western union. I felt sorry for him and I sent him the money and now I can not get it back. Is there an association that I can report to about this jerk?

[enigma32]

1. Leave a bad review on the site you had freelancer.com, I do not see any bad reviews for him!!
2. Western Union -- Do you remember the details? I'm going to assume he had you set a test question/answer on it? A GOOD scammer will be able to produce fake id's to pickup WU's in a fake name, but with a Q/A no ID is required. Without q/a there's a chance you have his real name..
3. If you are sure you have a legitimate name, pursue them via police and small claims court.. in your case its international which complicates things and pretty much makes this step a waste of time.

[termenator]

1. Leave a bad review on the site you had freelancer.com, I do not see any bad reviews for him!!
2. Western Union -- Do you remember the details? I'm going to assume he had you set a test question/answer on it? A GOOD scammer will be able to produce fake id's to pickup WU's in a fake name, but with a Q/A no ID is required. Without q/a there's a chance you have his real name..
3. If you are sure you have a legitimate name, pursue them via police and small claims court.. in your case its international which complicates things and pretty much makes this step a waste of time.

He is in middle east. How can I take him to court? I did not use freelancer.com. I posted my job offer here and he approached me. He told me he has a team working for him and I check he had no bad mark on the freelancer.com and that is why I gave him the job.

[enigma32]

WOW. Well, in that case.. let it go. You screwed up badly on this one.

You just experienced what I call "A well paid lesson in life". What you did was very stupid. Not to say it means you're stupid, you just clearly have absolutely no experience in dealing scammers. Most people in this country don't so don't feel too bad about me saying that. We don't grow up having to be on the defensive with absolutely every person we ever deal with trying to rip us off. And most people don't know the ins and outs of how scammers get away with what they do, either.

First, he took you up on a job offer here and showed you his profile on freelancer. Aside from having only 2 reviews on there anyhow, how do you know that its even his profile? You said he's in the middle east, but the freelancer profile says Ukraine. The two very different locations is a huge red flag. As is the fact he didn't offer you some sense of security like sending you some sort of identification or using an escrow or opening the job on freelancer.com, something, anything, to offer you some sense of security.

On top of that, both ukraine and middle east are "extremely high scam risk" areas!

Western Union: Like I was just telling you, WU is the scammers playground. Even within this country. Q/A means no ID is required, and even when an ID is required western union is not a bank. The idiot at the grocery store counter is far from an expert on spotting fake id's, while a good scammer is actually quite good at spotting and making them. Western Union and moneygram should be a LAST payment option, reserved for when you know who you are dealing with and pretty sure they won't screw you.

And the last one is the fact he was basically begging you for money. I don't know about you, but if I am in a situation that I have to beg someone for money I will offer them some sort of assurance they will not get screwed and have recourse if I do. And thats dealing with someone who actually physically knows who I am. Your talking about someone you have no idea who they really are.

[Star]

termenator, I hope you don’t mind me stealing your thread here.

This individual -oleg (jzsoft) has showed me pictures of his team and told me everyone in the team has over 10 years experience in programming. He also told me sad story about they don’t make much in his country, Ukraine. And he didn’t want to move my job offer to the freelance.com as he has to pay commission there. And there is no paypal over there (Can someone from Ukraine tell me if it is true? ). And he informed me that Western Union is a big company and it would be safe for both of us to do business with that kind of set up and lalalal. Yes. I was stupid, I sent him the money thinking he can help me to maintain my shop afterward and I will pay him money every month for maintenance fee so that he can put food on the table. I WAS WORRIED ABOUT HE COULDN”T FINED ENOUGH JOB FOR HIS TEAM. I TRIED TO HELP HIM. What was wrong of me? I don’t want to go into detail about how stupid I was any more as this just makes me upset. After this oleg incident, I also offered the job of setting up my site to another member in the forum. And the result was the same.

What can I do about that? Should I lose trust on people? I am doing business in an honest way, however, during the years, I found a lot of other parties do not do the same way. Am I too stupid to deal with programmers? I don’t know. This entire incident was/is insane. Yes. I have learned a big lesson, however, there is one good thing that comes out of it is I forced myself to learn programming and set up my site. And now I don’t need to rely on others mercy. When I think about the incident in such a way, it makes me smile. termenator, may be you should do the same?

[enigma32]

I knew it'd sound offensive, I'm not saying you're stupid

Just a very bad thing to do

Paypal works pretty much everywhere.

Western Union is never a good idea unless you know for sure who its going to

[enigma32]

And I repeat the prior part about finding good help being hard.

[Star]

I knew it'd sound offensive, I'm not saying you're stupid

Just a very bad thing to do

Paypal works pretty much everywhere.

Western Union is never a good idea unless you know for sure who its going to

Yes, I am stupid, let me admit it. I am learning. ;-)

[enigma32]

I knew it'd sound offensive, I'm not saying you're stupid

Just a very bad thing to do

Paypal works pretty much everywhere.

Western Union is never a good idea unless you know for sure who its going to

Yes, I am stupid, let me admit it. I am learning. ;-)

Like i said, a well paid lesson in life, and I'm trying to pass a few for free

You have to remember a scammer is going to be very persuasive... The only person who will ever profess their love to you more than your one true love is the person who doesn't give a rat's *** about you and wants to completely screw you over. Both an analogy and yet another verrrrrrry well paid lesson in my life rolled in one there. *sigh*

Paypal will work with any bank account world wide. I've sent money to poland, ukraine, russia, china, everywhere.

Western Union is easy easy easy pickings for scamming. I'll be blunt, I usually am honest and blunt if you didn't notice. 99% of western unions fall into these two categories. Illegal immigrants sending money back home in a way that let's them feel safe they can't be found and can't get stolen on its way. Foreign scammers ripping off americans that don't know better.

If someone has a whole team of programmers, they'd have more feedback on their freelance profile, they'd easily present to you a portfolio of prior work, and they wouldn't be begging you for money. If "hard to find jobs" means begging you for even a few hundred dollars, it also would've meant 10 out of 10 of their workers saying "eff you" to him long ago.

However, in the end, its still easy to get ripped off. I know nearly every game in the scammers' book, and I'll admit I can still get screwed over easily.

Anything I miss?

[RACNicole]

Hi, this is Nicole from Rent a Coder.

One of the most important things you can do right now is vow to work with a service that has protects your project and your money.

At Rentacoder for example, we protect your money with free escrowing on all job types as Radu indicated.

If necessary, we can additionally allow you to verify the time worked on a project with an 'in and out' real-time card application. This application records the worker's desktop and webcam so that you can witness your project's development. (Freelancer doesn't provide a safe (time verified) pay-for-time model. Freelancer doesn't let you choose the most appropriate payment model for your projects, either. At Rentacoder, we have a safe (arbitration protected) pay-for-deliverables model and a (time verified) pay-for-time model.)

We also offer arbitration on all projects free of charge and we test your deliverables to make sure they meet requirements. We also prevent abusive buyers from stalling an arbitration's start. In fact, 45% of our arbitrations are completed under a day and 75% of them are completed under a week. Even more, we show the public how our arbitrators make their decisions. (Freelancer limits arbitration to projects with milestone payments of more than $30. If your project has milestones less than that, you don't have access to arbitration even though your situation may warrant it. Moreover, Freelancer's mandatory pre-arbitration processes let abusive workers stall the *start* of arbitration (and prevent you from accessing your money) for weeks. So a Freelancer worker can stall arbitration on Freelancer for 17 or more days. We would explain more, but Freelancer doesn't publish detailed rules of it's arbitration process.)

But it is not true that (as Radu stated) "most buyers preferred choosing unexperienced coders for a better cost." While 1/3rd of projects on sites like ours and our competitors will be price conscious, the remaining 2/3rds are awarded based on ratings, certifications and expert guarantees. Some workers make tens of thousands of dollars a year and more (see the worker list ranking list at https://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/misc/AllCoderCompleteList.asp for details). In order to maximize your earnings, it's important to choose a service that protects you, and different sites vary widely in what they do for you.

There are other services as well. I invite you and everyone here to compare the 7 major services through this link to learn even more: http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/DotNet/misc/CompetitorInformation/WhyRentACoder_ForBuyers.aspx

If you have any questions, please let me know. You can also call in to talk to a facilitator 7 days a week, or email us (see http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/misc/Feedback.asp).

Nicole
www.rentacoder.com

[Eihwaz]

Wow, Star, why didn't you tell me?
I live in Ukraine too, I can probably talk to the guy (and his magnificent team of professionals) if you know his location, because I know only the city they are located in — Kharkov. Maybe there is a way to get your money back.

[Star]

Wow, Star, why didn't you tell me?
I live in Ukraine too, I can probably talk to the guy (and his magnificent team of professionals) if you know his location, because I know only the city they are located in — Kharkov. Maybe there is a way to get your money back.

It happened over a year ago. I don't know what you can do about it.

I am living in L.A, if you tell me someone do something in L.A, and ask me to track someon here, I don't think I can do anything about it at all. Sometimes we have to let things go and admit it we learn a lesson.

[Eihwaz]

I just think it worth trying, afterall, it's not 30$ we're talking about...

[Star]

I just think it worth trying, afterall, it's not 30$ we're talking about...

At first I could not sleep for two weeks thinking about my money. Then I realized not only I lost my money, but also I lost my sleep. Why should I?

If a programmer using this way to do business, I don't think his business will last long.

[XAMelleOH]

And there is no paypal over there (Can someone from Ukraine tell me if it is true? ).

Yes, it's true, Paypal doesn't works in Ukraine and Russia.

[Star]

And there is no paypal over there (Can someone from Ukraine tell me if it is true? ).

Yes, it's true, Paypal doesn't works in Ukraine and Russia.

I talked to Paypal and they informed me that they have a branch in Ukraine. https://www.paypal.com/worldwide/
Eihwaz is from Ukraine, he just applied one.

[Eihwaz]

In fact, I found out today they're not really working with our country. Well, WE can pay for services, not accept money to our accounts, so I'm going to have to go with 2checkout, I think...