deniss13 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 PrestaShop developers, i don't know what are you thinking but when you will realize what exactly are you doing? You release version almost every month, this is not only developers nightmare but user's too... As soon as there is new version i start work on my shop, starting to update my self made template and modules and when I'm just finished you release a new version, which makes all my previous work incompatible... what the hell is this??? You can't even maintain stable compatibility between small versions like 1.5.017, 1.5.2, 1.5.3 they all have major changes - WHY???? How do you expect developers to so something decent when you just keep throwing versions with gazillion bugs...why do you keep rushing versions and publish them unfinished, clearly unthinking and not understanding the consequences this may cause? WHO is your Developer boss? are he even understand something from development or he is just some marketing [spam-filter]? Let me show some examples... WordPress - World most popular CMS - 2 - 3 releases per year, all stable... Joomla - Second world most popular CMS - 2 releases per year... Drupal - 1 release per several years... Now Lets see PrestaShop... PrestaShop 1.4 Final was released on March 18, 2011. - Mess PrestaShop 1.4.1 was released on April 21, 2011. - Mess PrestaShop 1.4.2 was released on May 30, 2011. - Somehow stable PrestaShop 1.4.3 was released on June 16, 2011. - Stable PrestaShop 1.4.4 was released on July 28, 2011.- Stable PrestaShop 1.4.5 was released on October 13, 2011.- Stable PrestaShop 1.4.7 was released on February 8, 2012.- Stable PrestaShop 1.4.8.2 was released on May 15, 2012.- Stable PrestaShop 1.4.9 was released on August 30, 2012.- Stable PrestaShop 1.5 was released on September 13, 2012. - DISASTER!!! PrestaShop 1.5.1 was released on October 4, 2012. - Complete Mess.. PrestaShop 1.5.2 was released on October 23, 2012. - Almost Stable... PrestaShop 1.5.3 was released on December 28, 2012. - Disaster again... You released 13 versions over 20 months 13!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So in conclusion, PrestaShop developers you keep publish versions almost every month and even twice per month!!!!!, can you tell us please when do you plan to release a fairly stable release so we can skip the rushed gazillion bugged versions and can start working on our modules, templates and own shops so we don't need to backup, upgrade every 2-3 weeks???? Will you ever consider a backward compatibility when you make BIG changes between small releases like 1.5.2 to 1.5.3.... Let's see just one line from your 1.5.3 change log, just 1... "[-] FO: improvement on h4/h5 edits (id become class)" I want to ask the developer who did this, are he realize that this single change will brake the layout of ALL EXISTING MODULES AND TEMPLATES???? Is this change was sooooooooo important that it is exceptable to brake all modules and templates because of that????? And you even suggest on your customers on your Facebook page, that if his template is compatible with 1.5 it will work on 1.5.3, are your staff really that incompetent?!?!?! I'm GREATLY disappointed by this bad bad release cycles with unfinished untested product in which you show that you don't care much for your users, for your community and developers, you don't follow any release cycle, you don't care for backward compatibility... I'm sorry if my tone is to harsh, but i'm really pissed of this... I hope to be able to hear my voice and the voice of the thousands crying customers and developers... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dh42 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Let me share my thoughts on the subject with you. Prestashop is not a CMS software ( that is why I moderated your topic) You are comparing it to other CMS softwares, which is to be quite frank, wrong. I agree that Wordpress only releases 2-3 updates a year, you can view their roadmap here, http://wordpress.org/about/roadmap/ but at the same time it is the most hacked software on the web. Another aspect which I would like to stress is the testing. Only so much can be tested in house. It is impossible for Prestashop to set up every scenario with every payment gateway and every feature. You would be talking about thousands of test shops, if not over 10k. Some software can only be tested in a live environment, e-commerce software is one of those. Let me also mention in the arena of free e-commerce applications Prestashop does have one big competitor. Magento. Look at their release history, 15 updates in 12 months... http://www.magentocommerce.com/download/release_notes#Release Notes - Magento 1.7.0.1 (Jun 20, 2012) E-commerce is different than serving up blog pages, you have to worry about security. To be secure, you have to update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deniss13 Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 Well i agree that WordPress is not e-commerce CMS, yes its not, but it has e-commerce platform into it so you can build online stores with with, same for Joomla. About security, WordPress is mainly hacked not because it has slow release cycles but mainly because there is thousands of free plugins which brake its security, and the WordPress is used with more then 100 million users. With a bit of knowledge on how to secure your website, avoid sharing hosting and htacess on admin part, if not some sql injections, hacks are hard thing to do, and i believe that there are finger counted security issues and updates for PrestaShop. Most of the updates has almost nothing to do with security. Now lets think what is PrestaShop? PrestaShop is a platform for e-commerce. Beside the newsletters from PrestaShop who advise us on how to increase sales and such, where did you put the upgrade and update process? If i have to down my online store every month for 6+ hours to update, and test the new monthly version only to see that with almost every update my template and my modules are broken and i have to wait for developers of my theme and module to update (if they update and if its free of charge), by the time they do manage to update it, PrestaShop again releases a new version and the process starts again, and i see my self in some endless update/upgrade process which cause down time, money, and time... and for what? for a 13 releases less then half prove to be stable enough for a real online store to be run on them. Now explain me how this is good for my online store, for my image of the store and my business? Is this the PrestaShop vision on how its users should use it? to constant update every month and in many cases loosing they payed modules and templates because of so rapid and major changes? Why is so hard to make an road-map and plan for 1-2 releases yearly with only small bug fixes releases in between with only really serious bugs? Changing H4 to Class is not really a bug and this "improvement" has no place in minor update... Giving an example with Magento is not a good point because they do very very few changes in this minor releases to they core modules and structures, they mainly fix bugs with them and the new features and structures come with major releases.. I also noted a poll here in PrestaShop forums in which PrestaShop actually asked the users on how often they prefer updates.. You can see clearly thaat 90% of the users voted to have 1-2 releases yearly.. once again i'm not alone in this boat and it seems that PrestaShop did not notice and did not care much for the users opinion. Also i have noted that you tell there like it seems a different story from the opinion you have here.. As someone that worked for a software company that can boast one of the greatest market penetrations of their software let me give my insights. 1. Testing, its just not there. I mean seriously, a release was rolled out with no ssl support. Did no one test a shop before they packaged that release? Whether you realize it or not you are alienating the novice developer with things like that. They cannot get it working, they move on. 2. Complete updates are a waste. Get off of the major and minor version number system. No one wants to wait a month for a bug that is keeping there store down to be fixed and packaged into a complete release. Use a hot patching system that allows for roll backs. SSL problem? No worries we will release a hot patch tomorrow, problem solved. That is the most logical way to provide fixes on what to most people is considered mission critical software. 3. Use the new version numbers, everyone is. I mean honestly what makes version 1.5 not be version 2? 4. Here is on that really bothers me. FIX BUGS. Out of the box, depending on what version you have, most of the payment gateways are broken. FIX them or suit offering them. It is very troublesome that when helping a novice user you have to say something like; your best bet is to go buy a module from that guy right there who gave prestashop a lot of money. It makes people think there is collusion between prestashop and others to break the program and help out developers. Bad business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest* Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 As Deniss13 wrote: For a long time ago Prestashop has opened a poll exactly asking their opinion on this theme. I don't know the exact agreement on this now, but it seems that Prestashop decided to release the software immediately only when critical bugs are available, otherwise each quarter to half year. I think this is a realistic time and more than 1-2 releases do not make any sense and waste time of all (users and developers). ADD: most of the payment modules are third party modules and the same for the themes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dh42 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Wordpress shipped with timthumb functionality, it was a huge security hole which caused millions of sites to be hacked. I cannot think of anything that Prestashop has done that even remotely compares to that. Now lets think what is PrestaShop? PrestaShop is a platform for e-commerce. Beside the newsletters from PrestaShop who advise us on how to increase sales and such, where did you put the upgrade and update process? I don't know what you mean here. If i have to down my online store every month for 6+ hours to update, and test the new monthly version only to see that with almost every update my template and my modules are broken and i have to wait for developers of my theme and module to update (if they update and if its free of charge), by the time they do manage to update it, PrestaShop again releases a new version and the process starts again, and i see my self in some endless update/upgrade process which cause down time, money, and time... and for what? for a 13 releases less then half prove to be stable enough for a real online store to be run on them. Why are you updating? The only reason to update from version 1.4 to 1.5 was features. If you had a shop running 1.4 then in most cases you shouldn't need to upgrade to 1.5. If you needed features that were in 1.5, then you should have upgraded. If everything is working right with 1.5.2, then why upgrade to 1.5.3? Think of yourself like an enterprise user. Companies don't run the latest version of Windows, they usually run a version or two behind the current version. Why? Stability. How many companies do you think are rolling out to Windows 8 right now? Most are rolling out to Windows 7 actually. Why is so hard to make an road-map and plan for 1-2 releases yearly with only small bug fixes releases in between with only really serious bugs? Changing H4 to Class is not really a bug and this "improvement" has no place in minor update... Its one class, it takes 5 minutes to straighten out. All you really have to do is change 1 line and do a copy and paste in 1 file. Giving an example with Magento is not a good point because they do very very few changes in this minor releases to they core modules and structures, they mainly fix bugs with them and the new features and structures come with major releases.. Actually it is. The page I linked to had over 2500 revisions. What could look like a bug fix could be a way of changing things totally. Do you develop in Magento? I did post that almost a year ago. Besides the version numbers, I can see most of the other things are being slowly changed. Slow, because it takes time. You cannot just change things over night. Maybe it is not happening at the pace that you would like, but I can see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deniss13 Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 No i don't develop, I'm not a developer but lets say an advanced user, and i can do some things. I can't speak for magento because i have only tried them and then i prefer PrestaShop. I have upgraded to 1.5 because i need the top horizontal menu and the decent slider, with small css modifications my store looks good. I have upgraded from 1.5.2 to 1.5.3 because of the many bugs one of which is Internet Explorer and cart/login problems. Here is the pain, i cannot change 3rd party non native modules which i bought for a simple reason - because it is encoded. This is a payment module for a local bank, however i have a box from this module in the front office, which now is ended up with broken layout. So i have to rollback from my backup so i don't end up with broken box and module, but i have to stick with Internet Explorer bug, and i have to wait the bank to update their module, and why? because some genius from PrestaShop decided to put this "improvment" in a minor release... And this things happens almost every release, there is always some nasty bug that you are forced to update for, but with the update comes other bugs... And you are telling me that this is how it should be? That this often updates are good? And this ridiculous bugs which can be tested with alfa/betas before goes live is normal?!? I'm running online stores back from 2005, i have used oScommerce, creLoaded and i saw their decline and death just because of bad developers decisions. And if PrestaShop loose their trustworthy users, and users can't really on this software because of ridicules release cycles and very unstable releases, well users will find other software... And it is pointless to tell me that things are changing because when 1.5 was in rc2 there was mountain of bugs back in august, that there was a topics where the community requested at least one more rc3 so they can see most of the bugs covered and fixed before the final release, and what happened? PrestaShop closes their eyes and released the disaster half finished just to be "on time" with the e-commerce expo... and you are telling me that "things are changing" ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THM11 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) ... I must agree with you deniss13! dh42 take your head out from your *** and see the world! I mean the way updates are done nowdays with prestashop 1.5 it just causes more issues and bugs etc.. and there has not been single stable release of 1.5 so far, so I'm kind of happy for every month releases until to the point it actually works. And regarding this CSS change, WHO THE HELL WAS THE ***HOLE TO APPROVE THIS KIND OF CHANGES? These stupid changes causes more harm than good, it's not just 5min fix, it takes a while to even find what has been done, test it, etc... really "minor release" again filled with bugs bugs bugs... Edited December 29, 2012 by THM11 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romast Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I'm not too happy eather because I used a lot of time to test new things, but I'll stick with 1.5.2 for the moment which does not have major bugs for me at the moment, until developers upgrade my theme.again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burhan BVK Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Wordpress shipped with timthumb functionality, it was a huge security hole which caused millions of sites to be hacked. I cannot think of anything that Prestashop has done that even remotely compares to that. A while ago practically all the shops were hacked via an XSS vulnerability exploited by hacking the Prestashop site, and since they still insist on including remote content from the Prestashop site on the backend home page it is still a security concern. This would have caused millions of sites being hacked if there were that many sites using Prestashop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamtheme Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I also think that PrestaShop should drastically decrease the release cycles, and also release betas before official releases, with options for feedback from beta testers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroc1994 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 yep same here less updates and more stable. in the forum there are only topics with problems with 1.5.3. I wanted to upgrade, but nah too much bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwilden Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 +1 deniss13 Why are you updating? The only reason to update from version 1.4 to 1.5 was features. If you had a shop running 1.4 then in most cases you shouldn't need to upgrade to 1.5 Yes, the new version of prestasho 1.5 is a disaster!! Why update to 1.5.x ? Instead of solving the problems that most users have, is dedicated to changing the template classes. The mistake that many have with paypal continues. Now most users can not update the products and can not make new. many shops closed for hours to see if everything is correct after upgrading, and the disappointment is great when we detect new bugs that did not exist previously. All these problems at Christmas, which has lost a lot of money to merchants who have trusted you. I greatly sorry having updated to version 1.5.x. I recognize that the 1.4.9 version was perfect for me, no errors, but I decided to upgrade to use the function of multi store, I found it very comfortable updating the quantities in products, the new top bar, slider and many more things that have fallen into disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanopresta Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Another aspect which I would like to stress is the testing. Only so much can be tested in house. It is impossible for Prestashop to set up every scenario with every payment gateway and every feature. You would be talking about thousands of test shops, if not over 10k. Some software can only be tested in a live environment, e-commerce software is one of those. So on your statement, the Prestashop team could not test in 1.5.3 if you are able to add new products and or enable or disable product. Because when I updated from 1.5.2 to 1.5.3 last night and I tried to start adding more products I received in my opinion a major screw up when I received the error [An error occurred when updating () object product] That seems like something that is easily tested. I found it in a matter of minutes. Oh an my solution to that error, roll BACK....... please TEST TEST TEST TEST before releasing updates PLEASE!!!! Thanks for this great Post, it should hit right to the point AND that The Prestashop Release team needs to read. I am a Prestashop user and Merchant Business. And on more thing, just a suggestion.... Why don't you guys and gals over there at Prestashop put a live functioning test site up with a front end and back end for user to use and test before releasing downloadable updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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