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Addons market and EU law


deniss13

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First i want to say that i'm lawyer by education.

 

While browsing addons market, i noticed something that most probably is illegal. I hope that it is not intended mistake, that's why i make a topic about it to warn you.

 

I have noticed that all the "banners" like "luxury theme and bio theme", "sales" and "promotions" with reduced prices, and other options like "Update option" are only available for products developed by PrestaShop.

 

This is wrong due to the "European Union competition law"! While addons market is a virtual marketplace owned by PrestaShop you should provide equal ground for all who participate.

 

As PrestaShop develop products which sells on this market, this make PrestaShop in direct competition with the other developers.

This means that in current situation where PrestaShop have "special" treatment for their products only is abuse with that the market is owned by them and dominant position.

 

Here is some quote from article 102 from the EU Law.

 

"Any abuse by one or more undertakings of a dominant position within the common market or in a substantial part of it shall be prohibited as incompatible with the common market insofar as it may affect trade between Member States"

 

 

This can mean,

(a) directly or indirectly imposing unfair purchase or selling prices or other unfair trading conditions; ( B) limiting production, markets or technical development to the prejudice of consumers; © applying dissimilar conditions to equivalent transactions with other trading parties, thereby placing them at a competitive disadvantage; (d) making the conclusion of contracts subject to acceptance by the other parties of supplementary obligations which, by their nature or according to commercial usage, have no connection with the subject of such contracts."

 

In general, you should provide equal grounds for all, not only for your products.

 

What you should and can do.

 

1. Make option for everyone to have sales, promotions, update options like on your products or remove them for all.

2. Remove your products banners, or make option so everyone can have according to some rules equal to all.

3. PrestaShop certification. Make a clear statement visible on the market, what exactly this means, because as far as i know every product on the market is approved by PrestaShop team, so then you should clearly explain what is the advantage for products with label "certificated by PrestaShop" or "developed by PrestaShop" otherwise you are misleading customers that there is some advantage but no one knows exactly if there is any or you just promote yourself or your partners.

4. Developers information. You hide intentionally the information of who is the developers of the products by saying only "by community" while on other "special" developers the name is visible. This is big violation! This thing only can bring you very hard charges. Its like going to the local store and buy some cheese and the information for who is the manufacturer to be hidden on the package by the store!

5. Some developers like "template monster" have their products online without approval by PrestaShop team. I saw that very clearly because their products appear 2 days after major PrestaShop release and Products developed by other starting to appear a lot lately. This put all other developers in disadvantage, because this developers have 7-10 days with almost no competition on every new release.

 

 

What you can do alternatively and legal.

 

You can make your "featured" products chosen by you and make statement "chosen by the staff" or something like that, this way you can promote products that you personally like. However keep in mind that should not be only your products.

 

I'm surprised that no one pressed charges against this violations yet because they will win in court for sure, and i'm telling you all this to change your market and consult your lawyers when you make your market. Look at big markets like Google's play store, Apple store and Microsoft store and you should understand what i'm talking about. Your market is young and PrestaShop is young, and all my best wishes is not to learn how to do things the Hard way.

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These are all nice points but I doubt they will make any such changes unless they are sued. They don't seem to care much about fixing anything on addons, most of the changes they make are just prettying up the front end. For months there have been serious issues with the after sales process, once you purchase a module you would start seeing problems. But they don't seem to care about fixing any of those.

Addons team thinks that they are doing contributors a favor, despite all the commission they earn. And many of the contributors seem to be afraid to speak up. Even if you do your thread is more likely to be locked or deleted than receiving any actual help.

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As deniss13 said, it is not explained what these advantages are, what makes you someone a partner, how their products are promoted etc. None of that is stated in the addons site. So when I see a certified module at the first page I don't know if it is because it is from a partner or if it actually has more sales.

 

And they still don't have a terms & conditions page in English, how hard could that possibly be?

 

Hi,

 

There are already partners that pay for some advantages ...

 

 

V++

 

Atch

Edited by Burhan BVK (see edit history)
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some advantages examples :

possibility to :

- put all links you want in your forum sign,

- sponsor prestashop with malicious sort of racket,

- use prestashop in domain name (or not, I think - what I see every day - everyone can do that without any problem ;) ),

- etc...

 

English TOS ? But prestashop is french, why do you want they make any effort for rest of the world ? world need to learn french, that's all ;) (After all, english language will be arbitrary (stupid ?) decision :P )

 

....

What's the day today ? XD

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  • 4 months later...

Today you can have 15% with a promo code but only for modules developped by Prestashop.

 

This is a "special" treatment for their products only and it's against the EU law.

More over we can't do such a promotion on our sites because of the Addons TOS : products on addons can't be sold cheaper on an other site.

 

Yuck

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  • 4 months later...

Hi,
 
Sorry for the late answer. Since I was asked about it on Twitter an hour ago, here it is:
 

I have noticed that all the "banners" like "luxury theme and bio theme", "sales" and "promotions" with reduced prices, and other options like "Update option" are only available for products developed by PrestaShop.

 
That is not true.
 
Take these two banners on addons.prestashop.com today, They point to module packs and newsletter modules developed by multiple contributors:
 
 

Today you can have 15% with a promo code but only for modules developped by Prestashop.
This is a "special" treatment for their products only and it's against the EU law.

 
I don't get it. External contributors can ask for a 15% promo code campaign anytime. We're happy to set up a discount on their products and we often do.
 

More over we can't do such a promotion on our sites because of the Addons TOS : products on addons can't be sold cheaper on an other site.
Yuck

 

These are the TOS of literally 100% of all E-commerce marketplaces.  :)

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Hi,

 

Sorry for the late answer. Since I was asked about it on Twitter an hour ago, here it is:

 

 

That is not true.

 

Take these two banners on addons.prestashop.com today, They point to module packs and newsletter modules developed by multiple contributors:

 

 

 

I don't get it. External contributors can ask for a 15% promo code campaign anytime. We're happy to set up a discount on their products and we often do.

 

 

These are the TOS of literally 100% of all E-commerce marketplaces.  :)

 

 

Well that was fast response, almost a year!!...

 

Also why do you miss all the questions?

 

How can a developer put his banner? How can a developer set a promotion, you are the first person to say that developers can make promotions, nobady else told developers so, where is your guide lines about how developers can make promotions, how can they put their banner? Where?!?

 

Also answear those missed questions below:

 

3. PrestaShop certification. Make a clear statement visible on the market, what exactly this means, because as far as i know every product on the market is approved by PrestaShop team, so then you should clearly explain what is the advantage for products with label "certificated by PrestaShop" or "developed by PrestaShop" otherwise you are misleading customers that there is some advantage but no one knows exactly if there is any or you just promote yourself or your partners.

4. Developers information. You hide intentionally the information of who is the developers of the products by saying only "by community" while on other "special" developers the name is visible. This is big violation! This thing only can bring you very hard charges. Its like going to the local store and buy some cheese and the information for who is the manufacturer to be hidden on the package by the store!

5. Some developers like "template monster" have their products online without approval by PrestaShop team. I saw that very clearly because their products appear 2 days after major PrestaShop release and Products developed by other starting to appear a lot lately. This put all other developers in disadvantage, because this developers have 7-10 days with almost no competition on every new release.

 

Why developers like template monsters have prevelegies to have their name and special page and no review for their themes but all others developers names are hidden and have to wait countless days for approval, is this seem fair to you? Because to me its seems that you showcase someone you like and the rest is just in unequal position.

 

Why did you not answear those questions? i will tell you why, because you can't, because you know i'm right! PrestaShop team has shown that when meet constructive critics with arguments that you can't deny, you guys just get silent and don't bother to answer. I'm really disapointed by PrestaShop support, addons and communication with PrestaShop. Your CMS is great but everything else is terrible.

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Well that was fast response, almost a year!!...

There are 270,000 topics on this forum, couldn't read them all when I arrived last April. Furthermore, the communication between the PrestaShop team and Addons contributors or certified partners is quite good and I think it is of questionable taste that you chose to publicly gripe about things you don't understand instead of emailing us your questions. 

 

However, I'll happily answer them today.

 

How can a developer put his banner? How can a developer set a promotion, you are the first person to say that developers can make promotions, nobady else told developers so, where is your guide lines about how developers can make promotions, how can they put their banner? Where?!?

 

This is going to be very easy and practical in the months to come. Directly from your middle-office. 

 

I'd like to mention that our Module Sales team gives away 20,000€ every month to help with the selling of every module on the Addons store. Including your modules. Try now, go to addons.prestashop.com and try and get a discount on your module from one of our representatives on the chat. It's on us!

 

Also answear those missed questions below:

 

Well, you really know how to ask nicely :)

 

3. PrestaShop certification. Make a clear statement visible on the market, what exactly this means, because as far as i know every product on the market is approved by PrestaShop team, so then you should clearly explain what is the advantage for products with label "certificated by PrestaShop" or "developed by PrestaShop" otherwise you are misleading customers that there is some adv antage but no one knows exactly if there is any or you just promote yourself or your partners.

A module that's "certified by PrestaShop" is a module that was created by a certified partner of PrestaShop (a certified contributor goes through tests and procedures which assure us of the quality of their modules, Customer Care, etc.). I note that you don't think that this is clearly enough stated on our Marketplace and we'll keep that in mind when we rethink the display.

 

4. Developers information. You hide intentionally the information of who is the developers of the products by saying only "by community" while on other "special" developers the name is visible. This is big violation! This thing only can bring you very hard charges. Its like going to the local store and buy some cheese and the information for who is the manufacturer to be hidden on the package by the store!

Those special developers you mention are simply certified contributors. Again, the Addons Marketplace is run by PrestaShop and as the most serious company that we are, we do not violate any law. If you want to further question our integrity, I'd appreciate that you email your concern to our team directly. You can PM me, too.

 

5. Some developers like "template monster" have their products online without approval by PrestaShop team. I saw that very clearly because their products appear 2 days after major PrestaShop release and Products developed by other starting to appear a lot lately. This put all other developers in disadvantage, because this developers have 7-10 days with almost no competition on every new release.

Like every big company, Template Monster put a lot of resources when it comes to being the first to release stable templates as fast as possible after PrestaShop releases a new version. True, they manage to be very fast because they have manpower. But can you really reproach Template Monster for being successful?

 

Moreover, it's not only manpower. It's also dedication. If you're familiar with PrestaShop's next version from working on it on Github before it's released, then you'll be as fast as any other contributor, including TM.

 

Why developers like template monsters have prevelegies to have their name and special page and no review for their themes but all others developers names are hidden and have to wait countless days for approval, is this seem fair to you? Because to me its seems that you showcase someone you like and the rest is just in unequal position.

TM doesn't have it better than other certified contributors. And it does sound fair to us that contributors who went through the trouble of training their technicians and having them tested for PrestaShop skills be displayed as certified.

 

Why did you not answear those questions? i will tell you why, because you can't, because you know i'm right! PrestaShop team has shown that when meet constructive critics with arguments that you can't deny, you guys just get silent and don't bother to answer. I'm really disapointed by PrestaShop support, addons and communication with PrestaShop. Your CMS is great but everything else is terrible.

I am sorry you feel that way. It is certainly not how we see things, we are in fact very hungry for feedback and constructive critics. I must say that this message you posted wasn't exactly what I consider constructive criticism, though... and it was certainly not posted in the purpose of creating a dialogue, you were just trying to call us out in a questionably aggressive way.

 

PrestaShop is not perfect. Our Addons marketplace is not perfect. Far from it. But we are working hard on making it better day after day and for that, we need you. We need you to tell us what you think, what you want, what you need. We don't need you to set the cat amongst the pigeons just for the fun of it. This forum is a place where you, in your quality of PrestaShop technician, can welcome PrestaShop users and help them solve their problems. Unfortunately, all you are doing on the forum beside posting this attack 9 months ago is replying to "Job offers". It is not really the spirit of open-source and mutual aid :(

 

I don't want to close this thread but I don't want it to become a chain of interminable messages. I'll be glad to read your very long emails though. You are also very welcome to come to our office if you ever visit Paris (or Miami for that matter, but I'm thinking Paris is closer to Bulgaria)! ;)

 

Thanks.

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There are 270,000 topics on this forum, couldn't read them all when I arrived last April. Furthermore, the communication between the PrestaShop team and Addons contributors or certified partners is quite good and I think it is of questionable taste that you chose to publicly gripe about things you don't understand instead of emailing us your questions.

 

I guess you are not the only one needed to read 270 000 topics, also this is addons forum, i guess it is for addons related problems, so there should be addons staff who watch it. It is on the forums because i beleive this is the right place and this conerns not only me.

 

 

This is going to be very easy and practical in the months to come. Directly from your middle-office. 

 

I'd like to mention that our Module Sales team gives away 20,000€ every month to help with the selling of every module on the Addons store. Including your modules. Try now, go to addons.prestashop.com and try and get a discount on your module from one of our representatives on the chat. It's on us!

 

Ok i will accept that, however you sould mention it somewhere and describe the process to developers, because i'm sure 95% of them are unware of this feature.

 

 

Those special developers you mention are simply certified contributors. Again, the Addons Marketplace is run by PrestaShop and as the most serious company that we are, we do not violate any law. If you want to further question our integrity, I'd appreciate that you email your concern to our team directly. You can PM me, too.

 

Yes you are violate the law, because you as an market "digital retailer" don't have the right to hide "manufacturer" information. Imagine that you are going to a store to buy a laptop, on the one laptop it sais "made by sony" and have "sony" logo, and the other model has nothing on it, or it has "made by community" which one you will buy? The EU law strictly forbids such behavior. Also read that from EU law - "applying dissimilar conditions to equivalent transactions with other trading parties, thereby placing them at a competitive disadvantage". Hiding the name of the developer "manufacturer" is not a feature is bad practice.

 

You should consult your lawyers abou that really, but i'm 100% sure because i work in retail, and have been fined for missing manufacturer info.  Also every other digital market shows who develop the software, see for example windows store, android store, apple store, envato markets and so on. I have not see anyone then PrestaShop to do that, so think for a moment.

 

 

Like every big company, Template Monster put a lot of resources when it comes to being the first to release stable templates as fast as possible after PrestaShop releases a new version. True, they manage to be very fast because they have manpower. But can you really reproach Template Monster for being successful?

 

Moreover, it's not only manpower. It's also dedication. If you're familiar with PrestaShop's next version from working on it on Github before it's released, then you'll be as fast as any other contributor, including TM.

 

I disagree greatly on that, because it doesnt come to men power at all. See the following scenario.

 

PrestaShop released new version.

 

TM update/release product for this version and it goes without approval on day 1 on the market.

 

Small developer also update/release product on the same day as TM, however when he submit new file he have to wait you for approval up to 10 days.

 

So in the time between second developer been approved, in this 9 days TM get exclusivity and put other developer in unequal and not competitive mode - which is again violation of the law. Your rules should be equal to all, no matter how big or small they are.

 

 

A module that's "certified by PrestaShop" is a module that was created by a certified partner of PrestaShop (a certified contributor goes through tests and procedures which assure us of the quality of their modules, Customer Care, etc.). I note that you don't think that this is clearly enough stated on our Marketplace and we'll keep that in mind when we rethink the display.

 

About that, i don't mind certified products, however you must clearly explain what is the advantage for the customer for that. Because i can show you many modules that are not certified and are alot better in every aspect then certified similiar products. So customer should know exactly what is the advantage in this product, because at this point is uncertan what is the difference and it just look like advertise for the developers who pay you the yearly certification fee.

 

Yes at some point i get aggresive and i apologize for that, but this concerns are mentioned hunderds times in the last 2 years humbaly, and PrestaShop don't response to them or don't recognize them at all as problems.

 

I can tell you about 10 urgent problems on the addons that are mentioned and your team is aware of them and for years they don't do anything.

 

I care for PrestaShop and this is why i spend so much explaining what the problems are, so that PrestaShop can improve, and i think it is for the best of all. However you have to be responsive and to recognize the signs when you made a mistake intentionaly or not and to make mesures to correct it, exactly this spirit is missing from PrestaShop - the will to correct mistakes and to listen the community.

 

Regards

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