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Is Prestashop able to cope with new European tax laws


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From July first the EU will have a 10.000,- euro threshold, so if you sell this amount in a year to other EU countries you are obliged to sell the products with the VAT of that country. So basically that will mean you will have to set a VAT rate per EU country:

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/modernising-vat-cross-border-ecommerce_en

This is of course possible with Prestashop. BUT, as Prestashop base price is the price without VAT, each country will have a different price is they have a different VAT rate, while the EU demands that they are all the same. 

Example: 

Product A is 120,- in the France (so ex price is 100,-), but with how PS is structured the same price for a customer in Denmark (VAT is 25%) would be 125,- euro. But it has to also be 120,-

Is/will there be a solution for this?  

Fiddling around with (negative) discounts is of course not really a solution 

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Hello,

thanks for your question. We have the same issue. Alot of your customers (we are an agency) want to display the same gross price all over europe.

PrestaShop can handle taxes, thats not the problem, but you cannot change the "pricebase" to gross price. WooCommerce has this feature already, you can change it with one simple dropdown at the configuration panel.

PrestaShop could handle this different net prices with the specitic price feature, but its not possible, to maintain 10 different net prices for 2.000 different products, in addition if you use the specific price feature for some deals or customer groups. You are lost.

Thats really an issue. 

Does anyone have any solution on it? i think most shop operator will notice this topic only some weeks before first of july.

Hanuchin

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Posted (edited)

This is a really important topic. Implementing these new tax rules correctly can be complicated.

As for the choice to have the same end-consumer price for all countries, this may work well for you if you sell products with high margins. Otherwise for example if you are based in Germany (19% VAT) and send an order to Sweden (25% VAT) the 6% difference can wipe out your profit.

The other option, the way the EU suggests to do it in this new regulation, is to work with a base price excl. VAT and then calculate the end price including VAT, based on the VAT rate of country of delivery. If a customer is not logged in -which is the case with most new customers) how do we know what end-price to display? Should we implement a pop-over on the landing page where the customer must choose a shipping destination? And how do we redirect him from there?

Or display the prices including the VAT of the country of the shop, then at checkout, after the customer selects the country to ship, recalculate the correct price. Who's gonna explain the Swedish costumer that the price he saw when he put the item in his cart (for example EUR 119) suddenly has changed to EUR 125 at checkout?

Can the Prestashop team to come up in time with updated code and a hand-on tutorial?

Edited by PrestadminOS (see edit history)

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In your answer are some different topics. 

First: if your margin is not high enough, to handle 25% VAT for sweden with the same gross price in germany, then its the best way, to still calculate the price from your configured net price. Every user will see his gross price depending on his country. When you enable the geolocation feature, most users are identified correctly, even if they are not registered and have entered any address.

This new regulation is only a problem for show owners, how want to, or have to, sell the products with the same gross price accross european countries.

PrestaShop added this feature request to the roadmap for 1.7.9, but we all know, the 1.7.9. release will be on 2022. Thats to late for juliy 2021.

---

Right now we are talking to serveral well known PrestaShop module agencies to get solution in time.

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5 hours ago, Mr. Tommy said:

Is there any news yet?

I tried to do it in a module which works in general, but unfortunalety Prestashop is doing some price/tax calulation in the template files which made it impossible to develop a generic module for me.

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Hi,

I recently made a Vat Checker module, this module allows you to automatically check a VAT number (from the VIES API) and then set the customer to a 0% tax group. This module is for intra-Community supply. This means anyone who does not have a valid VAT number will have tax applied! 

So for the new rules starting 1st of July 2021 you can create tax rules and set them to each country. Since you either have 0 tax or your country specific tax.

 

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But the tax rules are not the problem. You need to calculate the same gross price for every country with different tax rules. I think your module is not a solution for this issue.

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4 minutes ago, Hanuchin said:

But the tax rules are not the problem. You need to calculate the same gross price for every country with different tax rules. I think your module is not a solution for this issue.

You could set a catalog price rule a set a discount % for the tax of each country. It's not the prettiest solution, but it should work.

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This is the solution, which PrestaShop provides, but if you have 500 articles, you cannot enter 10 different net prices for each product - A shopowner would need to edit 5.000 Prices until 1st of july. (without having any combinations). 

Its possible, but not a solution.

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2 minutes ago, Hanuchin said:

This is the solution, which PrestaShop provides, but if you have 500 articles, you cannot enter 10 different net prices for each product - A shopowner would need to edit 5.000 Prices until 1st of july. (without having any combinations). 

Its possible, but not a solution.

No, you would only have to set a discount for each specific European tax %.
In the backoffice if you go to Catalog > Discounts > Catalog Price Rules, there you can create a discount for the difference of the tax from your original country tax.
This will make sure the gross prices stay the same at the end of line. These Price Rules will be set over the entire catalog. 
Yes, would be allot of work if your originating country uses 2 tax rules (Like food tax and normal tax). But otherwise it should be quite fast.

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Posted (edited)

Hm, has anybody tested the most simple solution. Use and show in shop product net prices (set as "No tax"). Then add tax rules for all countries to apply local tax level, set in taxes tab, at checkout.

Seems simple and should work. However, mine is not. It seems that Product "No taxes" overrules all the rest of rules and there is no tax added, whatever country is selected for billing and delivery. Do I miss something. Is there some general setting to define the sequence of rules or something else should be enabled.

PS. As a note, there are at least 2-3 rules for each country right now (standard and some reduced rates) Based on what the checkout process should apply these rates? This applies also to the blog post: https://www.prestashop.com/en/blog/european-union-vat where it seems explained but in real life not tested.

So, have you tested and does it work?

I am on PS 1.7.7.4 pretty standard just custom css and some functional payment and shipping modules.

Edited by M.N (see edit history)

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Hi - I am also researching this problem. Testing Austria VAT as an example, I have set the Local TAX rate in VAT section / then applied the excl VAT in one product (you would expect this VAT rule would simply apply it to you products/ store but no it only shows INCL VAT @ £0.00)

You can only select one country at a time from the drop down menu (Austria works great!) - so how do you set it for X number of EU countries?! Obvs only being able to set one is not the solution.

 Screenshots attached.

Help?

PS2.png

PS1.png

PS3.png

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I was at first confused also. But it is rather simple. You have rates for every country. Then you have rules tab, where you can add rule and add as many countries with tax to the rule. Then you have apply this rule to the product.

All default rules consist only one rate for all EU countries (your country VAT). To have multiple tax rate you should create new rule group and add several rules under it with different countries and rates.

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Thank you M.N - this is amazing. I have tested it today on a few countries and it is working. A lot of people are experiencing trouble with this so I am noting the steps I have taken to help (sorry if they are obvious to some):

1. International - VAT - using country VAT code, enable that tax

2. VAT - TAx Rules - Set up Tax Rules Group (i've just called mine EU VAT)

3. Select the Group - add Tax Rule - add each of the set up countries to this group

4. Catalog - Products - Pricing tab - VAT rule - add the EU VAT rule to each product in your catalog.

Thank you so much. LC

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On 6/12/2021 at 7:26 PM, M.N said:

I was at first confused also. But it is rather simple. You have rates for every country. Then you have rules tab, where you can add rule and add as many countries with tax to the rule. Then you have apply this rule to the product.

All default rules consist only one rate for all EU countries (your country VAT). To have multiple tax rate you should create new rule group and add several rules under it with different countries and rates.

I believe that is how the tax rules work but there is one major issue, you will have different incl tax prices for each rule and within the EU that is not allowed 

So if your base price is 100 someone in Germany would pay 120 euro and in Sweden 126 euro. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

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4 minutes ago, Sickboards said:

I believe that is how the tax rules work but there is one major issue, you will have different incl tax prices for each rule and within the EU that is not allowed 

So if your base price is 100 someone in Germany would pay 120 euro and in Sweden 126 euro. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

You are right, the price would be different for every country. It's either your loss (as the seller) of the tax difference, or the customer has to pay a couple of euro's more. 

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On 5/31/2021 at 7:33 AM, Hanuchin said:

Its possible, but not a solution.

A solution would be to set up shop in each country you sell to.

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I asked question about showing price without VAT from local Customer Protection Board. I got answer on two pages with bunch of messy text. However I understood that they did state, that two rules have to be followed:

1. Price is made clear before committing to purchase. That means, it can be made clear in shopping basket also, and if prices shown without VAT this has to be explained to customer, that VAT is added in shopping basket after entering delivery address.

2. Customers may not be discriminated based on their country in EL. That means if DE customer is ordering goods to DE, customer has to get the same price as FR customer ordering goods to DE. So, if prices are shown without VAT and VAT is added in the basket, then these two rules are followed as no tax will be added based on consumer location, but only based on delivery location in the same way for all customers who want to deliver to this location. Also prices are made clear to customers, as there is explained that tax is added in the basket.

PS They did state the opposite to some comments in this forum, that shop must not offer different NETTO price to different customers based on their location. Also stated, that this no-discrimination regulation is not about taxes, but about seller not to discriminate EU consumers. Taxes and delivery costs can be added based on location for delivery. This can not be avoided and is not the topic seller can change or regulate.

Btw, they also explained that if there is shop for DE with different prices, all EU customers have right to order from this shop and get the offered prices.

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Posted (edited)

As before there was the same VAT for all, then there was no need to go into legal details for NETTO or BRUTTO.  But now there is and in reality I can see two solutions:

1. Prices are net and tax added later. This can be done in PS also today.

2. Prices are shown only to customers who have logged in with delivery address entered. Can not be done with PS today. Also has problem, as several times my customers have ordered first order to one country, and next to other country. So there still can be confusion, but it is limited to few customers.

All other solutions seem to me legally problematic. As if you show final prices in catalog, you will discriminate users visibly, it you change final price based on location. And you discriminate them less visibly, if you adjust your net price and tax part, but you still do it.

If you do separate shop for each country, then there must be justified and bulletproof way to define, why you are not able to ship from this shop to you neighbors...

But not probable, but for sure, as many as there are in countries these officials for consumer protection, they all give you different answers. I got mine and will follow it.

Edited by M.N (see edit history)

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Does anyone know how to limit the application of the delivery country VAT rate to consignments under €150 for IOSS? 

On 6/14/2021 at 2:35 PM, LCPresta said:

Thank you M.N - this is amazing. I have tested it today on a few countries and it is working. A lot of people are experiencing trouble with this so I am noting the steps I have taken to help (sorry if they are obvious to some):

1. International - VAT - using country VAT code, enable that tax

2. VAT - TAx Rules - Set up Tax Rules Group (i've just called mine EU VAT)

3. Select the Group - add Tax Rule - add each of the set up countries to this group

4. Catalog - Products - Pricing tab - VAT rule - add the EU VAT rule to each product in your catalog.

Thank you so much. LC

 

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2 hours ago, M.N said:

Btw, they also explained that if there is shop for DE with different prices, all EU customers have right to order from this shop and get the offered prices.

Lawmakers swim in a similar pool as big business. All Big Businesses have offices in each Country they sell to. As a upcoming star you need to find capital to take a similar approach. That kind of behaviour will also help in giving you authority EAT is something which is taken into account by all search-engines.

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So slight nuance 

You are allowed to have different nett prices as long as the gross price is the same, this will result in very ugly pricing for all countries that have a different VAT rate than your local VAT rate. @prestashop still waiting for a proper solution.

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Hello, we have developed a module, which is able to change the net price and tax depending on the users country to fit the new european laws and still have a nice gross price. No need to work with vouchers, cart rules or any other price-feature from PrestaShop. Just configure the tax rules and tax rates, and our module does the calculation.

But the module is not suitable for all configuration options from the PrestaShop Core, and its not a simple "install the modul" task. Its a small change, but its not possible to do this change via module override.

We cannot give you this module today, because we are not able to answer questions or fix some new bugs in the next 2 weeks. We already have a very high workload.

The module has been tested the last view days with i think all PrestaShops (1.6.1 to 1.7.7.4), which are maintained by our agency, and which need the same gross price for all countries, and it works very well. It has also been tested with some product configuration modules.

What can you do:

- You could configure the tax rates at 1. of july, and go with different gross prices until the mid of july.

We will setup a contact page on our website this week, where every one who is interessted into this module can write us. And we then will talk to you and provide the module/solution in the mid of july.

 

 

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Hello! HELP!!!!!!  I have 1.7.7.1. version. I sale from UK to  EU   how  to set up vat pls?  Just tell me pls as simply as possible PLEASEEEE!!!!    Thank you!

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On 6/16/2021 at 7:39 PM, Sickboards said:

All default rules consist only one rate for all EU countries

The new European vat regulation for Ecomerce has automatically cancelled this rule, or rather, the rule you are referring to is for the base price not on the vat included price.

On my site, I have it like this "see attached" base price and vat included price specified.

The vat esclusive price is same for al products not minding the country of destination or geolocation.

For now, the one major problem I see is that of:

Buyer in Germany on holiday wants to buy on my site, he has no account nor address registered on my site, he sees price German vat included due to geolocation and goes on to checkout.

On checkout, bumps on increased price due to destination country, confused and not sure of what happens he abandons cart.

Yes it will be easy to explain it to him (if he desires explanation, or he might already be aware of these vat regulations, but I'm afraid this might create a skyrocketing abandonment rate.

On 3/19/2021 at 6:14 PM, PrestadminOS said:

implement a pop-over

 PrestadminOS mentioned this, and sounds to be a working solution but not I'm completely convinced.

 

 

Screenshot 2021-07-01 at 19.00.43.png

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Yes from uk to eu,  however if I won't orovide ioss and won't calculate vat  the oarcels ll be delivered much longer as the buyer ll have to pay vat on his own.  If they ll pay at the cart the parcel ll be delivered much quicker.  I hope it does make sense? Thx

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Hi I followed this discussion but it doesn't seem anyone found a proper solution.

I wish to show the same Gross Price for all customers, while ps auto-calculates the VAT applicable as per the EU Tax Rule which has been created at the back office.

So depending on the delivery destination of each order, the price exl. vat will be different. The system should actually do reverse mathematics.

Did anyone find a solution? 

Thank you,

Sia

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Dear Community, we created a module for this topic.
On the one hand you can set the set the tax calc for all eu countries (depending on geo-ip & shipping adress the correct taxes will be calculated) and furthermore display the same price incl. vat in each eu-country if you wish: https://prestashop-oss.medani.at/en/
 

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On 6/17/2021 at 2:14 PM, grice said:

Does anyone know how to limit the application of the delivery country VAT rate to consignments under €150 for IOSS? 

 

I would like to know this too. Selling from UK to EU

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1 hour ago, Nick Lappage said:

I would like to know this too. Selling from UK to EU

Why not have another shop for each country, there is a reason behind big firms to open at least a website for each country.

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19 minutes ago, Nickz said:

Why not have another shop for each country, there is a reason behind big firms to open at least a website for each country.

The issue with that is not every country allows you to purchase their country domain extension unless you are a resident or have an actual address in that country.

 

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Question. 

Where is everyone getting their IOSS registration? Some of the companies that I have been referred to is just laughable. £500+ for registration and then they want a % of each transaction. 

 

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1 minute ago, hennaboy said:

The issue with that is not every country allows you to purchase their country domain extension unless you are a resident or have an actual address in that country.

 

Yes!! I agree.....and in all cases it's ridiculous to force shop owners to open a shop in each european country, small shops cannot support this!!.... to fix an issue that should have been already fixed.... The problem is that Prestashop platform fell behind in comparison to Woocommerce or Magento where you can set a "cross border price consistency"...anyway the solution is a module and to hope that they add this important feature in next Ps versions.

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13 minutes ago, hennaboy said:

The issue with that is not every country allows you to purchase their country domain extension unless you are a resident

A simple .com solves that issue. .net even.biz

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6 minutes ago, Nickz said:

A simple .com solves that issue. .net even.biz

Well not really. If you are setting this up and then using IP address to redirect to the correct site you need 27 domains and websites!!

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36 minutes ago, hennaboy said:

f you are setting this up and then using IP address to redirect to the correct site you need 27 domains and websites!!

If you have the funds to open up 27 Offices in all EU countries you should have no problem.

If you sell to just 3 Countries you only need 2 additional sites and work your way up. Anyway you should only have separated domains for each languages at a beginning and don't need a Portuguese Site up if you don't sell to Portuguese people. 

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2 minutes ago, Nickz said:

If you have the funds to open up 27 Offices in all EU countries you should have no problem.

If you sell to just 3 Countries you only need 2 additional sites and work your way up. Anyway you should only have separated domains for each languages at a beginning and don't need a Portuguese Site up if you don't sell to Portuguese people. 

Well I think there could be perhaps a handful of countries globally that I have not sold too now. Setting up offices or domains/websites for each EU country would not be viable.

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17 minutes ago, hennaboy said:

Well I think there could be perhaps a handful of countries globally

Is prestashop able to cope with the new EU tax laws is the title of the inquiry. No-one is talking about global or even to cover the entire EU.

 

3 hours ago, Nick Lappage said:

I would like to know this too. Selling from UK to EU

I was answering @Nick Lappage's question. Its a fact that people from France rather buy from french websites. Germans buy rather from German Websites and well the British anyway prefer UK Stores. Its not helpful to cluster 10 languages in a website if sales are not even breaking into the earning zone. It slows down your website. Plus there is a possiblity to harm your ranking doing so.

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10 minutes ago, Nickz said:

Is prestashop able to cope with the new EU tax laws is the title of the inquiry. No-one is talking about global or even to cover the entire EU.

 

I was answering @Nick Lappage's question. Its a fact that people from France rather buy from french websites. Germans buy rather from German Websites and well the British anyway prefer UK Stores. Its not helpful to cluster 10 languages in a website if sales are not even breaking into the earning zone. It slows down your website. Plus there is a possiblity to harm your ranking doing so.

Thanks @Nickz. I am selling from the UK to most European countries and have been for a long time. I chose my languages as they are used in countries outside the EU as well, so the Americas and Africa have been good sales for me too. I can cope with the various vat settings for each country, but I don't think there is anything within PS to stop the taxes being added when the cart value is over €150. 

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1 hour ago, hennaboy said:

Question. 

Where is everyone getting their IOSS registration? Some of the companies that I have been referred to is just laughable. £500+ for registration and then they want a % of each transaction. 

 

@hennaboy I'm trying out Crossborderit.com - worth a look?

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41 minutes ago, Nick Lappage said:

I am selling from the UK to most European countries and have been for a long time. I chose my languages as they are used in countries outside the EU as well, so the Americas and Africa have been good sales for me too.

Ok I think you should set up a EU site, to have the VAT covered. I'm pretty sure there is a module catering for EU VAT taxes added. And a NON EU Shop where you have the liberty not to have the obligation of VAT. NO EU Customer are non eligible to pay VAT anyway.

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En 17/6/2021 a las 3:14 PM, grice dijo:

Does anyone know how to limit the application of the delivery country VAT rate to consignments under €150 for IOSS? 

 

hace 15 horas, Nick Lappage dijo:

Thanks @Nickz. I am selling from the UK to most European countries and have been for a long time. I chose my languages as they are used in countries outside the EU as well, so the Americas and Africa have been good sales for me too. I can cope with the various vat settings for each country, but I don't think there is anything within PS to stop the taxes being added when the cart value is over €150. 

What's the point of this? Which VAT should be applied for orders below/above 150€?

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1 hour ago, joseantgv said:

 

What's the point of this? Which VAT should be applied for orders below/above 150€?

As I ship from the UK to the EU currently I do not have to apply vat to EU orders. But since the new EU tax laws have come into force (from 1st July) and when I am able to register for IOSS (seemingly hard to do for businesses in the UK), I would need to apply vat to all EU orders below €150. Anything above €150 has the vat applied at the European border, plus any handling charges which the customer has to pay.

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14 minutes ago, Nick Lappage said:

As I ship from the UK to the EU currently I do not have to apply vat to EU orders. But since the new EU tax laws have come into force (from 1st July) and when I am able to register for IOSS (seemingly hard to do for businesses in the UK), I would need to apply vat to all EU orders below €150. Anything above €150 has the vat applied at the European border, plus any handling charges which the customer has to pay.

Unless you have been supplying to businesses only with VAT ID then you should have been charging VAT the entire time.

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1 hour ago, hennaboy said:

Unless you have been supplying to businesses only with VAT ID then you should have been charging VAT the entire time.

@hennaboyI used to until January 1st when the UK left the EU. Now I should not unless I am registered in IOSS with an intermediary, which I am trying to do. Now, since the 1st January, the customer has to pay vat and handling charges when the package enters their country. If they don't then the package is returned to sender. Once I am registered for IOSS, I can reinstate vat payments for EU customers at the point of sale and the IOSS vat statement is sent electronically with the tracking code or a IOSS logo on the postage label. But it does look like some countries are still adding on other charges for the customer before delivery. It's a lot simpler to send parcels to customers outside the EU... sigh...

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Nick Lappage said:

It's a lot simpler to send parcels to customers outside the EU... sigh...

looks as if you guys are being punished for brexit.

Would you safe money receiving and handling goods in the EU i.e Netherland?

Edited by Nickz (see edit history)

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3 minutes ago, Nickz said:

looks as if you guys are being punished for brexit.

Would you safe money receiving and handling goods in the EU i.e Netherland?

I don't know - but I have just received an IOSS number from the Swedish Tax Agency using CrossBorderIT as my intermediary, that's partly sorted out my issues. I think the best I can do for orders over €150 is to charge vat at the point of sale and then refund the vat and send a new, manually generated, invoice showing no vat.

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6 minutes ago, Nick Lappage said:

but I have just received an IOSS number from the Swedish Tax Agency using CrossBorderIT as my intermediary,

sweet. Keep in mind you most likely will grow. Organizational reordering usually is done to save money.

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We have developed a new module which displays always the same final price, even when different VAT rates are applied.

You can purchase it at 👉 https://store.idnovate.com/en/payment/1443-same-price-after-vat-applied-with-different-vat-rates.html 👈

For example, for this product:

imagen.png.0e1bcd52c28aa9f4a62f9d29e80c8496.png

It will always display €100 as final price.

This is the price displayed in Spain:

imagen.png.a842444858e7690d00ee7d251bc92b11.png

 

France:

imagen.png.40f52339e2d6cc57bffe69c87cd00411.png

 

Italy:

imagen.png.e98eb6a00960851b6418d23de9416a47.png

 

And the information is displayed correctly in the invoice.

Spain:

imagen.png.09c63a974a87e08eea445935054e4d8a.png

France:

imagen.png.8ffc473f972ee6c0c1e8f22da4850617.png

Italy:

imagen.png.879c1e243157a5cd8bd86add34c2169e.png

If you want you can apply this configuration only for some products, customers, or even only for some countries. In this case the rest of the products/customers/countries will have the same behaviour than before.

There's a demo available at 👉   https://store.idnovate.com/en/payment/1443-same-price-after-vat-applied-with-different-vat-rates.html 👈

💣 💣 SPECIAL OFFER: Until the end of this month, get an additional 50% discount introducing the code "VAT" in the checkout.

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Hello,

So if I understand all I could read on the new rules applicable for the European Union from July 1, 2021, we all have to purchase 2 modules..?

1) https://store.idnovate.com/fr/gestion-des-prix/1443-same-price-after-vat-applied-with-different-vat-rates.html

2) https://addons.prestashop.com/fr/gestion-prix/50761-gestion-tva-royaume-uni-brexit.html

Shouldn't PrestaShop be able to deal with this without third party plugins?

I followed an official post about this (https://www.prestashop.com/fr/blog/union-europeenne-tva ) but it displays different prices for different countries, which does not seem to be allowed anymore..?

Does PrestaShop intend to handle this in a near future?

Edited by Shapes (see edit history)

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Hello!

i've fixed this problem for a customer of mine buying Idnovate module. It works perfectly and i've fixed a big problem, it's well worth the price folks!!

Waiting for Prestashop isn't an option right now but i hope they move forward as fast as they can because this is a real problem. But for what i've read i think they will implement this feature in 2022.

bye

 

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